The debate between the hardcores of both the PVE and PVP world has been ongoing for years. PvE players have relentlessly complained in all of their pompous glory about the hardcore PVPers getting "free epics", and generally speaking, feel WoW PVP is a joke. Naturally, this coincides with the ambush of the general forums via constant whinefests and QQ's in relation to their butt-hurt feelings. This often consists of ridiculous excuses and biased finger-pointing towards Blizzard and their shortcomings in designing a balanced PvP system, completely disregarding the fact that they might just be terrible.

PvP players respond with simple "stfu nubs","get raped scrubs" etc. and speaking on a personal level, I feel their argument is just as strong, if not stronger as to what actually requires any feasible amount of skill obtainable in this game. The natural troll inside every PVPer is impossible to beat in an argument. "No U" is a beast that cannot be felled.

Aside from my personal experiences farming Illidan for months - which included Rogues not being able to kick on Reliquary of Souls, tanks struggling to use the arrow keys properly on Illidan (failing in stage 2), idiots panicking and running around like beheaded poultry on mother shaz (most likely running on top of the entire raid in the process), and at least a handful of players that still can't properly control their ghosts on Gorefiend (after 5 months, mind you) - I have heard countless complaints, and seen a ton of evidence on the armory as to how even the most successful PVE players can't seem to carry on that success into the PVP world and struggle to break 1500 consistently. Even with all of the aforementioned problems that plagued my previous guild, it was all that was necessary to put Illidan on farm status. In addition, I have no doubt in my mind that 20% of the guild clicks their buttons. Would you ever be able to say that a team that has rogues/warriors consistently missing kicks, being out of position, etc. has actually succeeded in the Arena? Aside from teams like double Warrior/Healer or some sort of variation, I don't think so.

I feel there is finally definitive proof that will make it so hardcore PVE'ers can't possibly maintain their delusions in relation to winning this argument from here on out. Often times within a thread that this debate has plagued, you will find players from both sides saying things like "well if it's that easy, then do it", and "put your money where your mouth is". While I can't say that many have really done it on behalf of the PVE side, some of the top BG9 players have stepped together to finally put all of the naysayers and the argument in general to rest.

Enter the guild, "PVE is hard".
Full Size Image: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2061/2394934440_b7268fa8b8_o.jpg

Formed 3/26, they are now approaching the steps to Illidan and I wouldn't be surprised if they down him tonight. Stepping foot into tier 6 instances with only full season 3 gear and PVP skills, they have successfully cleared what up until a week ago, was the hardest PVE that Blizzard had to offer - and it only took them 10 days.

I'm really not surprised seeing as the roster consists of players like Trance, Swarm, Inactive, Prosu, Clicker, Heldrige, Caal, Qazdia, Hammura, Crysalid and the often overlooked Cayley and Shazovv - all of which are some of the finest players BG9 has to offer. The coordination necessary to maintain some of the top ranks during the prime of BG9 competition is more than enough to kill the best that PVE has to offer in terms of a challenge. IT is enitrely impossible, to my knowledge, for any PVE focused guild to turn around and put together a 5v5 team that breaks to first place - or even top 10 for that matter - within 2 weeks.

Now you might be quick to say "well it's only one guild", not every PVPer would be capable of accomplishing the same thing so quickly...

Well, you're wrong. GRAMMERPOLICE, another guild consisting of a majority Gladiator playerbase as well as Avada Kedavra (Top 5v5 European Team), has done the same thing. They were able to successfully down Illidan after only two weeks of forming.

Unfortunately this isn't exactly a good thing for anyone pro arena. After talking to a couple of players in PVEishard, it seems that some of them are actually becoming more entertained by PVE than when they are playing on the TR. This is yet another sign that overall, arena competition is fading and it's easily thrown on the shoulders of Blizzard for barely addressing any PVP issues at all or really adding anything new to the game in the past year.

In the end, PvE'rs feel that PVP'ers and arena are easymode and that free epics iare what is destroying this game. On the contrary, it seems as if PVE epics are just as free if not more so.

Update: 4 hours of attempts = win. http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot040608221247th9.jpg