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by Ming, Level 62
Last updated at November 3, 2007, 2:15 am
I am not sure how long this will last, I don't even know whether the new hemo will make it to the final patch, but as of now, I firmly believe rogue is the strongest class in TBC. The AR/prep build with 125% weapon damage, +36 debuff hemo once supplemented by full AP gear of season 3 is enough to defeat any class in the game, and it is the strongest arena spec in all three brackets, a dramatic upgrade over season 2's combat mace and combat mutilate.



I was on PTR and fought Jasi's 12700 HP, 410 resilience discipline priest with the new focused will talent, and I could go 50-50 with him with just one AR, pretty much a guaranteed win if I use both AR's. I had one of my characters specced CB/hemo, and I hemo crit him for 1475 when he went below 35%. I removed ghostly strike from my riposte/hemo macro and it feels so much cleaner. I will probably /castrandom ghostly strike with evasion. 5 energy over hemo for 15% dodge for 7 seconds is still a pretty good deal, although some will probably drop it completely. Then again lower tier subtlety is really weak, I think I still rather have ghostly/evasion macro over 1 point in camou.



Let's take a look at season 3 weapons, hemo vs 19/42 sinister strike vs 41/20 mutilate vs 30/0/31 backstab at 1500 AP:



Mutilate (Poisoned): 22.40

Backstab: 21.12

Hemo: 20.55

Sinister Strike: 18.16



Hemo with 2.8 weapons will start to approach mutilate's damage per energy, especially at extreme AP levels. With just 1500 AP, Syphon of the Nathrezim, you get 21.76 damage per energy, which is quite ridiculous. In fact, with just S3 weapons, mutilate only has a 9% damage per energy advantage over hemo. It is pretty crazy stuff.



For people who complain AR/prep make other specs obsolete, I would much rather have ONE dominant spec than two mediocre specs. Arm warrior, holy paladin, WE mage, SL/SL warlock, restoration druid, and we can finally add AR/prep rogue to that list.



The golden age of the rogue class, here we come!  I just sincerely hope there is no further change to the rogue class, no news is good news at this point.  We are absolutely loaded going into season 3.








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150 comments
antirogue
antirogue Nov 3, 2007 at 7:13 pm
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Ming, I'm really curious what you think the major defaults of the going with Assasin over Combat are? I mean sure imp sprint, AR,  and mace stuns are nice but is it really worth all the things you lose in Assasin tree?  There just seems like so much that is nice about assasin.  More damage, tons more combo points, CB, crit, murder, run speed etc. I would really like to see you spend some more time testing a build simular to this on test 21/0/40 is what i'm using live but on test I would move some points out of SC to FF and CR. The burst on this build is so nice. And you are always a bit faster than everyone else like a rogue should be. Hate to waste a sprint when someone is just 1 foot out of range.

I believe that AR/prep is going to be best for 5's however I'm considering going more like 25/0/35 for 2's and 3's. 

I'm curious what you think and would love to see you put some time into testing that build
Late
Late Nov 4, 2007 at 2:36 am
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its because ar-prep has the highest white damage in the game maybe?
on fully resilienced targets, lethality is a 2.7% increase in overall damage?
FF is nothing for mobility compared to double sprint.
AR>CB if you arent a tunnel-visioned idiot who cant keep track of CCs on the field.
Tons more combo points is an overstatement.
Malice lethality
ruth/relentless
CB SF? Id honestly rather put the points in 5/5 precision even if I wasnt getting dw spec.
venruki
venruki Nov 3, 2007 at 2:28 am
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Joliiz
Joliiz Nov 3, 2007 at 2:28 am
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Even you can't think this should go live.
Raptoreyes
Raptoreyes Nov 3, 2007 at 3:21 am
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Joliiz you greatly underestimate Ming's ability to ignore/cheer on horrible changes, so long as they benefit him.  You seem to be laboring under the impression that Ming is a fair and balanced commentator on issues relating to WoW when you really ought to know better by now. When Ming's ego gets pitted againsthis sense of fairness or his capacity for logic I'm sure his ego win every single time.  Getting easy cheap wins is very gratifying for the ego.
Ikilu
Ikilu Nov 5, 2007 at 2:18 pm
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Why exactly is it bad that rogues are going to be good again?  It was fine that Warriors dominated us in every way imaginable before.  It was fine that Warlocks could beat Mike Ditka AND Chuck Norris at the same time.  Now it's completely unacceptable that rogues can do more than just bleed on their opponents and people are complaining all over the place.  Ridiculous.  L2P people.  Enjoy it when your class gets buffs and learn to adapt to all changes to all classes as they happen.  No more whining.
Regrets
Regrets Nov 3, 2007 at 2:32 am
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Ah, so now we have to be 10min rogues to be good top arena? Neat! welcome to 200-300 honour per hour  in kill in bgs. Welcome to worse farming than any healing class. Outside of the two ar, the energy regen is so horrible i cant stand it.

I suppose the worst part is the fact that subtility is a one move build. Once ur out of ar, its simply obsolate.
I hope ppl will adapt, if not. Il probly put my rogue on the shelf. I wonder at which ap lvlfFull subt will do more dmg than ar, that will be fun. Really fun. ha.

Geez, Im starting to hate the fact that they buffed subtlity.


Imo prep should reset after 3min out of combat. Its Preparations, prepared for battle, not wait for 10min rolling ur thumbs at farm.
Jubeik
Jubeik Nov 3, 2007 at 3:06 am
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The prep cooldown idea isn't great, but i agree that it is gay that sub is pretty much the overwhelming best choice for specs right now.  I really help they make changes to make Muti viable.  I just can't stand maces; everytime i try to play them i just get annoyed with how boring the spec is and having to wait 10 min to have any nuts.  Furthermore, if i wanted to be a retard with a mace I'd re-roll warrior. 
I'm starting to power level another toon and maintaining the rogue until daggers are viable again.
lemonademan72
lemonademan72 Nov 3, 2007 at 3:20 am
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Just because AR/Prep will be the definitive rogue 2v2 spec doesn't mean
we all have to be 10 minute rogues, lol. Any other spec with hemo will
do just fine for being outside of arena. A 30/0/31 Would be great for
farming/BGing when needed, and hell even raid hemo can now be strong.
With something like 16/21/24 you can pick up ruth lethality, DW spec,
BF, hemo, prep, and DD. decent dps and support for pve.
Jubeik
Jubeik Nov 3, 2007 at 3:27 am
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2x Imp sprint is part of what makes that spec go.  Prep imp sprint gives us mobility options that we lack so badly with other specs.  The BF isn't on prep and AR is the only thing that gives the spec much punch.  16/21/24 is interesting, but it seems like you're missing out by skipping AR.
Kawklee
Kawklee Nov 3, 2007 at 5:14 pm
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"200-300 honour per hour  in kill in bgs." What a horrible exagerration, my holy pally does at LEAST 1000-2000 honor per hour through Queue hopping and pugging AV. Your class is going to be extremely strong solo (as any class that brings no group buffs should) and you're complaining? Ridiculous man.
Aziraphale
Aziraphale Nov 4, 2007 at 1:24 am